Author Topic: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2  (Read 4696 times)

gilldrums

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Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« on: June 17, 2011, 08:22:43 AM »
Hello -

Macbook Pro 8gb RAM
Sib 6.2
VDL 2.5
GPO 3
KP2 (as plugin)
KP4 standalone

Ok, so I've got a full integrated band score (winds and perc) - up to a point I had everything working wonderfully...

I had VDL going through an instance of KP2 and GPO going through KP4.  I had my Kontakt players where I liked them I saved the configs (within each respective KP window).

When I close the Sib file and re-open, I can bring the Kontakt configs right back to where they were (ex: Snare Line Manual LITE showing in KP2 as being on Midi Channel 6) but when Sib goes to playback the file the mixer changes all the slots to inconsistent numbers (ex: before the mixer sent snare line to slot 6, but now it's sending to slot 2 - which is a combo rack or something)

Anyone know what's going on?

Jim Casella

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 09:11:55 AM »
This probably has to do with how the new Soundworld playback system (introduced in Sibelius 5) auto-loads and assigns patches based on what you've selected as your respective sound sets for each playback device.

If you're wanting to manually tweak channels and specifics in the Kontakt multis, you may need to explore the option of using "Manual Sound Sets" within Sibelius. Otherwise, anytime you add or remove a new instrument within your score, the Soundworld system will likely shuffle how the patches are loaded into Kontakt through it's automated features.

Whether or not this is a good idea may depend on how much detail you want to control yourself, versus using something like a VDL-specific template for Sibelius and subscribing to the way those instruments will auto-load with its accompanying sound set.

gilldrums

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 12:03:15 PM »
Maybe I'm confused - I thought I was supposed to load the sounds into the KP's manually (or use a preset that I'd already saved) and let soundworld figure it out.  I'm a Finale migrator about 3 months now (never going back) but it's still a bit confusing.

I am using VDL_Soundset_6.0, the latest VDL template and the GPO soundset.

In Playback Devices I'm creating and 2 instances of KP4 and KP2 each but the loading the first of each with GPO->KP4 and VDL->KP2, then when I show the instances, I'm manually loading the instruments.  (The extra KP's are in case there's overflow or something...idk....)

Is there a better way?  I hope yes?  haha

Hugh Smith

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 12:54:42 PM »
I have some thoughts on all of this. Will be tomorrow before I can give an intelligible response though.

gilldrums, exactly what Template and SoundSet versions are you using? (6.0, 6.0a, or 6.0b)
Hugh Smith

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Hugh Smith

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 10:14:34 AM »
Let me see if I can address the immediate questions, and then I'll cover some more general information about SoundWorld.

Quote from: gilldrums
I thought I was supposed to load the sounds into the KP's manually (or use a preset that I'd already saved) and let soundworld figure it out.
Quote from: Jim Casella
Whether or not this is a good idea may depend on how much detail you want to control yourself, versus using something like a VDL-specific template for Sibelius and subscribing to the way those instruments will auto-load with its accompanying sound set.

You can still do it that way, but you'll find that it will take a lot more time than you want it to to setup the channel/slot assignments, each and every time you open the score - or at least more often than you would like to. In order to have full control of these assignments, and like Jim said, you'll need to be using Manual Sound Sets. This is not the recommended method.

Quote from: gilldrums
When I close the Sib file and re-open, I can bring the Kontakt configs right back to where they were (ex: Snare Line Manual LITE showing in KP2 as being on Midi Channel 6) but when Sib goes to playback the file the mixer changes all the slots to inconsistent numbers (ex: before the mixer sent snare line to slot 6, but now it's sending to slot 2 - which is a combo rack or something)
Quote from: Jim Casella
... anytime you add or remove a new instrument within your score, the Soundworld system will likely shuffle how the patches are loaded into Kontakt through it's automated features.

This is the designed functionality in Sibelius. Not so much that it changes the assignments on purpose (just to jack with us), but more that we don't care what they are. Keep reading.

Quote from: gilldrums
KP2 (as plugin)
KP4 standalone

I had VDL going through an instance of KP2 and GPO going through KP4.  I had my Kontakt players where I liked them I saved the configs (within each respective KP window).

I'm curious, is there a specific reason why you're using KP4 in standalone? Anyway ...

You'll obviously need to route VDL and GPO through different instances of Kontakt Player. I recommend you use KP4 for all of them (as plugin).

Quote from: gilldrums
(The extra KP's are in case there's overflow or something...idk....)

This is a good idea. You can have some staves in the score playing back with the wrong patch if you don't have enough instances (slots available) to cover the quantity of instruments for a given library you're working with. Any instrument changes in the score need to be accounted for also, as these use their own slots.

In Playback Devices I'm creating and 2 instances of KP4 and KP2 each but the loading the first of each with GPO->KP4 and VDL->KP2, then when I show the instances, I'm manually loading the instruments.

Is there a better way?  I hope yes?

Yes. Let Sibelius load everything for you and don't worry about what channels/slots are assigned to what instances of whatever (as long as you have enough instances of each that you need to cover the quantities). The only reason to open the Mixer would be to adjust some of the volume, pan, or knob settings. And I can't remember the last time I needed to open Kontakt Player for anything within the normal workflow.

If you have made changes in the Mixer to the Initial playback device or Drum map name (instrument), you'll want to make sure that all of those are set to (Auto). When these are set to (Auto), they'll have parenthesis around them. See attached image.

I put the more general SoundWorld stuff I was referring to here: SoundWorld 101: Distance/Time Ratio


Let us know how you get on.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 10:16:36 AM by chznvrt »
Hugh Smith

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Jim Casella

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 10:15:41 AM »
gilldrums - if you're using the soundset/template approach, there's no need to manually load patches into the Kontakt Player. In fact, in your playback configuration. I'd recommend starting from a point where none of the KP instances have instruments loaded. Saving playback configurations with instruments loaded can drastically increase load times when launching scores or switching to different playback configurations.

Also, there's no need to use KP4 and KP2. It won't hurt anything, but you may find the KP4 engine to be a bit faster. So you could load 4 instances of KP4, two with your GPO soundset assigned, and the other two with your VDL_Soundset_6.0x assigned.

With the above items in place, the auto loading will occur once you assign VDL instruments to particular staves via the Create>Instruments window. For proper function, it's important to use the specific VDL instruments rather than the stock "marching snare/tenor/etc" instruments.

Also be sure each staff in the Sibelius Mixer window hasn't been manually altered. For proper auto-loading, they should be set to (auto) (note the parenthesis).

Jim Casella

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 10:17:04 AM »
Ha! Looks like Hugh and I were writing about the same time. Great minds...  :)

Hugh Smith

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 10:27:52 AM »
What is that? 67 seconds apart?

Nice!
Hugh Smith

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gilldrums

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 04:32:01 PM »
Thanks so much, both of you guys!  The info you guys posted helped tons -  I think my GPO soundset file is causing probs with the auto-assign because when I only use VDL 6.0a soundsets, the auto assign and instrument loading seem to go as expected.  Something I read about GPO's XML file having a version number of at least 50000 (within the code) for Sib 6 lead me to try that workaround (editing the file slightly), but the GPO sounds are really only going to be needed for the demo...I can deal with manually assigning for the time being.

Thanks again!

-Brian Gill

Hugh Smith

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011, 04:24:27 AM »
... I think my GPO soundset file is causing probs with the auto-assign because when I only use VDL 6.0a soundsets, the auto assign and instrument loading seem to go as expected.  Something I read about GPO's XML file having a version number of at least 50000 (within the code) for Sib 6 lead me to try that workaround (editing the file slightly) ...

There are two GPO sound sets available as part of the Sib 6 install, even though you should only be able to see one of them (Kontakt version). The Kontakt version, GPO3, is 50001, the Aria version, GPO4, is 50002. I suspect the problem with the GPO sounds not loading the way you want may be with the sound IDs that are assigned to whatever wind instruments you're using.

If you would like me to, I can take a look at the file in question for you to see if I can tell what's going on. Let me know and I'll send you a PM with where to send it.
Hugh Smith

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Hugh Smith

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Re: Slots/Channels/KP4/KP2
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 10:11:09 AM »
Brian, did you get the email I sent you a couple of weeks ago? I need to know what your Playback Configuration looks like so I can attempt to duplicate the environment.

BTW, my initial scan of the file has so far confirmed my suspicion regarding the wind instruments' sound IDs that are being used.
Hugh Smith

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